'The deep and sustained insatiable thirst for power within the Italian peninsula since earliest times is a phenomenon that remains unparalleled in human history.'






'Political action is largely incompatible with the observance of moral criteria.'





































































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Doctrinal mind control in Italy and Roman Catholic brainwashing (3)

Biagio Catalano interviews Domenico Pacitti


Biagio Catalano: Professor, it is immediately obvious from a careful analysis that the history of the Roman Empire and that of the Vatican are clearly interdependent. In your opinion, why are certain academic specialists and public opinion itself so unable to perceive the evidence of the fact that Christianity was a political creation of the Roman Empire.

Domenico Pacitti: One reason is that they simply do not know their history. Another is that school and university indoctrination has kept them to within the safe established framework of investigation. Professional academics tend to overspecialise in a given area. This often leads to a form of stultification or mental rigor mortis which prevents them from perceiving certain situations within their correct context and in their proper perspective, or from being able to interpret the results of their research adequately. The independent gifted amateur or self-taught man is more likely to be free of these considerable faults. Another factor is that there is evidently no effective motivation and perhaps only disincentives for following the sort of lines you suggest in that it is not politically useful.

Public opinion in Italy and elsewhere continues to be guided for the most part by those who control the media. It is certainly true that from the time of Plato through to the Middle Ages and modern times there has been this continuity in degeneracy as a sort of corrupting force assimilating and transforming everything they came in contact with into something base and immoral. The deep and sustained insatiable thirst for power within the Italian peninsula since earliest times is a phenomenon that remains unparalleled in human history.

It is perhaps worth reminding our readers that the Roman Empire is generally said to have begun with the Battle of Actium in 31 BC and to have ended under Romulus Augustus in 476 AD. By the early sixth century the Western Empire had evolved into the Byzantine Empire. The Holy Roman Empire may be seen to have run from Otto the Great in 962, or from as early as Charlemagne in 800, right up until 1806 when it received its final coup de grâce following Napoleon’s defeat of Francis of Austria. So here you have a quite remarkable, unique phenomenon in history of the same city, Rome, having produced the two most powerful empires the world has ever seen, together spanning over two thousand years: in the words of Augustine of Hippo, one the City of Man, which was temporal and perishable, and the other the City of God, which was eternal and not subject to those criteria which brought down empires and ended civilisations.

Catalano: You have written about the Counter-Reformation and the Concordat as key events in the reaffirmation of Catholicism and its pernicious influence on Italian and world history. Do you think that it is possible to reverse these processes and if so, how?

Pacitti: The important point about the Counter-Reformation, or Catholic Reformation, the principles of which were enshrined in the Council of Trent of 1563, is that at a time when other European countries were making a giant leap forward, the Roman Catholic Church was making a giant leap backwards to medieval times. The need for belief in absurd dogma, such as transubstantiation, the sacraments and the afterlife, was emphatically reaffirmed, while the actual reforms were in large part bureaucratic. The Concordat, on the other hand, was part of the Lateran treaties which Mussolini drew up with the Holy See in 1929.

The creation of an independent Vatican state, the consolidation of the Church’s powers and the granting of new powers – notably control of the country’s education system – were among the concessions made by an all-powerful dictator who at the same time recognised the enormous strength and influence of a Church with hundreds of millions of adherents throughout the world. The move, an entirely political one which was at the time a good one for Mussolini, was a decidedly bad one for the Italian people. Like the Counter-Reformation, the Concordat took a decisive step in the wrong direction. Despite the nominal reversal of some of this damage in the 1948 Constitution, the contemporary Italian mentality remains Church dominated. So how do you reverse over 2,000 years of social and psychological conditioning? I think there is no single conceivable measure that could succeed on its own.

Two things are needed: a series of measures acting together plus the public perception of the permanence of the changes. Even if Antonio Di Pietro’s mini-revolution had succeeded, the sheer weight of the past would have left a widespread feeling of confidence that a future government could have reversed all of the important changes. Positive measures would have to include: a morally meticulous example set by the country’s politicians; publicly perceptible rewards for good conduct and the punishment of bad conduct; a radical reform of the country’s universities and schools; initiatives aimed at demonstrating the need for the abolition of religion on account of the immense harm it has caused; and the need to shed the old identity in favour of a new, positive European identity. As this is unlikely to come into force, I think we can reasonably expect the current mentality to prevail for still some time yet.

Catalano: Why do you think the Italian political class, regardless of colour, has an irresistible desire to cling almost subliminally to the politics and ideology traditionally expressed by the Vatican without being concerned about the effects of this alliance on Italian and foreign opinion? Is it just a question of banal clientelism or are there other determining factors?

Pacitti: Recognition of the weakness and instability of their own governments, on the one hand, and the power and influence of the Roman Catholic Church, on the other, provides the essential answer. It is beginning to look – and not only in Italy – as though the term ‘honest politician’ is an oxymoron, a pure and simple contradiction in terms. Political action is largely incompatible with the observance of moral criteria, or at least that is how it has always seemed to me.

In Italy, traditionally, politicians enter politics with the aim of becoming powerful and influential – a sure reflection of inner weakness and instability – and of amassing wealth through the art of transferring public funds to private bank accounts. No one in Italy really goes into politics to benefit the Italian people. This means that it is primarily the fault of Italians themselves for failing to take adequate action to stop this. That is to say that by doing nothing, through prolonged intent inaction, they are giving their silent consensus to this criminal class.

At the last election Berlusconi instructed his candidates to address voters as though they were eleven-year-olds. Well that sums up how voters are regarded. Italy never had a French-style revolution with the guillotine and never benefited from the full spirit of the Enlightenment. There is a sense in which most nations have the sort of government they deserve. Italians too, by their weakness of will, lack of courage and Church-conditioned mentality, have had the governments and political system they deserve.

Catalano: Many Italian opinion writers, journalists and anchormen currently have a Catholic background, or are at least for the most part aligned. Do you think that in the medium term it is possible to bring about a defenestration of these polluted generations so as to provide an example to young people who want to become good journalists, and if so, what instruments should be used?

Pacitti: Here it is not a question of being a practising Catholic, since some prominent Italian journalists are Jews, Muslims and Buddhists. The point is that they all possess the requisite culture of servility and intuitive self-censorship to be allowed on the air. And these are deep-rooted Italian cultural characteristics which are part of the legacy of a Church-instilled mentality.

The most pernicious aspect of the resulting media distortion consists in the illusion that the full spectrum of opinions is being presented to the viewer, listener or reader. The truth is that radical and independent opinion is carefully and systematically filtered out on account of its subversive potential – a veritable constraint on free speech. So the anchormen you mention are less dangerous when they are obviously acting as henchmen for their political puppet-masters than when they appear to be operating with meticulous impartiality, since in the latter case the art of deception is conducted as subtly as in a game of chess through a sophistical arrangement of partial truths which together produce a false picture.

Again, I consider the elimination of this corrupt class to be as unlikely as the elimination of the corrupt political class for the reasons given in my last answer: weakness and passivity as part of the Church’s indelible stamp on the Italian mentality.

Catalano: Do you believe that starving a country and reducing it to ignorance still constitutes a technique of efficient demagogic manipulation? If so, in what way and through whose work is this coming about in Italy?

Pacitti: No. The US National Security Council has long understood that systematic media indoctrination is far more effective in gaining control of people’s minds than the old methods of hunger and starvation. And Italy is learning from the US all the time. Italians are a naturally creative people whose creativity must be restricted to within certain well-defined confines if it is not to become politically dangerous or subversive. Hungry people are potentially more dangerous than the well-fed and the suitably entertained.

The promotion of “safe” cultural knowledge is considered legitimate. But, again according to the NSC, you have to keep people in the dark over certain matters. And that, again, means media control not just what gets communicated and how but also, and more importantly, what gets omitted.

Catalano: Professor Pacitti, thank you for your kind collaboration. We look forward to talking to you and benefiting from your opinions again soon.


Domenico Pacitti is Editor of JUST Response. He has written over 400 articles against corruption in Italy. He has taught philosophy, linguistics and Chinese at universities in the UK and Italy and currently teaches English language and American literature at the University of Pisa

* Biagio Catalano is an independent researcher who specialises in the history of Christianity. Some of his published work may be read in the Italian online journal www.alexamenos.com.

Note: The original Italian version of this interview appeared in Alexamenos on August 21 2005 titled "A tu per tu con Domenico Pacitti" and may be read here. The English version was first published by JUST Response on August 22 2005.

Catalano-Pacitti interview: Parts 1 & 2
Doctrinal mind control in Italy - Part 1
Doctrinal mind control in Italy - Part 2
Full list of articles by Domenico Pacitti

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